Summer Of Love

**OntarioVanMan** · 02-15-2009, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by layoutshooter

Admitting to voting for a liberal is the first step in recovery!!! LOL Layoutshooter

This is weird...Layout and no bellowing....

**chefdennis** · 02-15-2009, 01:38 PM

OVM, our country is not going to be destroyed. We all make it thruogh this, but not unharmed. Our economy will be beaten to death as the dollar collapses. We will have riots in our streets and we will see our government take a beating at home and by those that want the west converted or dead.

You will see attacks on your country again, and has much as Barry is in the process of weaking our country, the people will pickup and move ahead. It will take time, but the people will take control again...will we ever see this country as the founding father intended, I doubt that, but we will be a free people with a smaller government...this socialist plan hasn't worked anywhere and it won't work here, the people will take back our government and the country...we have before and we will again.....

As for what this will look like, everyone brings up the depression of 1929-32, well look at the depression of 1920, it was worse, but you never hear about it, why? Because the government let it happen and let the market fix itself, something they didn't do in the 1929-32 and something they aren't doing now. Barry's plan will ruin this country, it will be the people that save it....but it is going to be a long bumpy nasty fight , but the people will come out on top...I honestly believe that....

**layoutshooter** · 02-15-2009, 01:48 PM

I can behave if I want too!!! LOL. Another thing that REALLY worries me is just how this congress/senate/president are going to have the debate on moving to a National system. There won't be a debate. They will not allow one. They don't want anything brought up that might stop them from taking over that much of the economy. The media will back them up not mentioning anything that might be wrong or ineffecient with a government run system. Anyone who attempts to bring up possible problems will be raked over the coals and made to look like a fool and a person that "Hates" sick people. You can bet on one thing. When, not if, they force this National Un-Healthy system on us it will cost you more than you ever pay for health care now It will be far less effeciant and it will cost lives. Canada's system will be hurt by it as well. Right now the Canadian economy is sort of helped by the U.S. economy. That allows them to get by with slightly lower taxes than England has to pay for health care. Once the U.S. goes over to the "Dark Side" of socialism our economy will slow way down. The taxes we will have to impose will increase our un-employment rate to 5-7% as the norm, just like England and many other countries in Europe. Then Canada will be forced to raise thier taxes even higher. Layoutshooter

**OntarioVanMan** · 02-15-2009, 01:53 PM

this socialist plan hasn't worked anywhere...

And just where hasn't this worked?

Nearly every country in the world is socialist to "some degree"

cept here and its changing....but what can you expect?....the new immigrants are from those other countries....hundreds of years ago that wasn't the case....it is a different ball game...

**mjolnir131** · 02-15-2009, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by OntarioVanMan

this socialist plan hasn't worked anywhere...

And just where hasn't this worked?

Nearly every country in the world is socialist to "some degree"

cept here and its changing....but what can you expect?....the new immigrants are from those other countries....hundreds of years ago that wasn't the case....it is a different ball game...

i believe you yourself admitted that Canada had to back track on health care and let privet enterprise back into the mix,so it's not working there . the UK's health system is in shambles in some areas,true not all yet, so thats 2 do i need to go on?

**OntarioVanMan** · 02-15-2009, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by mjolnir131

i believe you yourself admitted that Canada had to back track on health care and let privet enterprise back into the mix,so it's not working there . the UK's health system is in shambles in some areas,true not all yet, so thats 2 do i need to go on?

Let me rephrase..."complete control" is not working....it is just too big an undertaking....they had to back off...but they still oversee...
Canada as a country is still a child under developement...
I've witnessed a move back closer to the center over the last 30 years...

**chefdennis** · 02-15-2009, 02:30 PM

OVM wrote:

And just where hasn't this worked?

Ok now this is going to take some work on your part, but take the time to research the economic fall of these countries that were under socialist forms of governement. This is no where a total list but some that i thought of on the fly here.

1) the Central american countries, El Salvador, Argentina, Hatiti

2) France

3) the Soviet Union

4) Japan (Barry referred to them and their "lost 10 yrs" as something that his plan will not let happen here, he is wrong)

5) The central european counties that formed the EU (and now look at the EU as it starts to fall apart)

6) the UK

7) And China....

All of them were or are socialist countries who have had a total economic collapse, some in the last 10-15 yrs, some happening now after already happening once...

Socialism, or government control of industries, banks and the people, don't work.

You just admitted as much when you spoke of canada taking over businesses and then having to sell them because they couldn't make it work...that my friend is socialism.....

As for the imigrants coming here and it being a different time.....Well they came here to get away from what they had, they came here for a better way of life. So now we are suppose to let them bring here what they ran away from??? Nope, you come here legally, you are now and american, not a "mixed american" Here is what Teddy Rossevelt had to say about immigration in 1907, and it stands today, well it should but like everything else, we the people bowed to liberalism...

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith, becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American… There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”—Theodore Roosevelt, 1907

**OntarioVanMan** · 02-15-2009, 02:41 PM

some of those countries are pure dictatorships or close to it central America...USSR communist...

And falling apart is just plain bad planning on the ruling parties...Not knowing when to back off...

Here as in Canada the Federal government can not have a National Health care system....they can tell a state or province to have one and to fund it....but there is that constitution in the way about state/provincial rights/soveirgnty.

**OntarioVanMan** · 02-15-2009, 02:45 PM

Yes but becoming an American doesn't mean I give up my right to my individuality. Is what you are saying? I should think like you? The country should not evolve into anything else...maintain the status quo?
Isn't one right...if you want something changed...do it thru the political channels to get it changed?

I know there is still a lot of the little things I am not seeing....one day the light may go on...

**aristotle** · 02-15-2009, 03:14 PM

OVM... which status quo would you advocate? The Antebellum status quo? Or the 1950's? Or the 1980's? The "status quo" isn't static for very long. It changes over time. The zeitgeist of the moment is all about Obama. That will pass too.

America belongs to the American people. It does not belong to the government. Governments come and go. The old argument about socialism in Canada or Europe or Central America isn't applicable here. America's experiment in democracy is unique in many ways. Our government has gotten much too big. They have relegated too much power unto themselves. Now, I fear, we can't wrestle that power back from them.

What I dread this summer is a backlash towards the government when it is demonstrated they are utterly incapable of solving problems. With our economy on near life support, it woudn't take much to reach a tipping point.

**chefdennis** · 02-15-2009, 03:21 PM

dictatorship or communism, thay are all socialist contries where the government controled the industries, the medical systems, the economy and the people, it doesn't work...and it shows.

As for you leaving your individuality, never, not even your hertiage..but the way of life from the country you left, the policial system the ways of life, yes. Its call assimulation to the world around you. Yes celibrite your country of origins holidays and your hertiage, but don't try to bring it here and force it on the US, you (and I don't mean you as OVM,but immigrants that come here legally) came here for a reason, most , not all for a beeter way of life, some came other reasons and I have no idea about you personally OVM, but those that came here and want to bring what they left, sorry of it was good there, then go back, we have a Constitution , Bill of Rights, even more important a "Declaration of Independence" that states how we live our lives and run our country.

To say that most countries in the world are socialist to some degree, that may be true "to some degree" but none of them have succeeded economically to the levels that countries that let the free market work and not be under the control of the government..

When you sit back and look at it, its all about the "Quality of Life", yes others have good aspects, but no where do others live as free as we have (notice I didn't say do), BUT, that has changed over time and is changing drasticlly and rapidly as we speak, and it isn't going to be pretty at all.....

**OntarioVanMan** · 02-15-2009, 03:41 PM

Its good to have a decent intelligent conversation without someone coming in a ranting "if ya don't like it leave"

For me to explain why I came here we'd have to have coffee one day...it just wouldn't come out in typed words that someone wouldn't take offense...if ya know what I mean...

**chefdennis** · 02-15-2009, 05:40 PM

OVM, 1st let me say that I was asking you why you came, for me that would be a personal issue and nothing that would need to be shared unless I was comfortable doing so. so please understand that I respect your privacy and the fact that you are coming here legally and are working to be an American citizen, you have already shown yourself to be a productive part of our society and a good person with good taste, you married a Conservative!!

As for the cup of coffee and conversation, anytime we are in the same area works for me. And yes the exchange if ideas is always better without the "rants"....

**OntarioVanMan** · 02-15-2009, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by chefdennis

OVM, 1st let me say that I was asking you why you came, for me that would be a personal issue and nothing that would need to be shared unless I was comfortable doing so. so please understand that I respect your privacy and the fact that you are coming here legally and are working to be an American citizen, you have already shown yourself to be a productive part of our society and a good person with good taste, you married a Conservative!!

As for the cup of coffee and conversation, anytime we are in the same area works for me. And yes the exchange if ideas is always better without the "rants"....

Ok...Fact is I like both countries of course..I did not come here to change anything that is American...just wanting to understand the mindset about the term "American" better...You could say i am neutral...I did not come from a depressed country living in squaller or dictatorship or as a refugee...I just came here to live and work and be a productive, contributing member of this society...
As I've said before I would defend this country from all enemies as I would Canada....Till we meet...

**mjolnir131** · 02-15-2009, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by OntarioVanMan

Ok...Fact is I like both countries of course..I did not come here to change anything that is American...just wanting to understand the mindset about the term "American" better...You could say i am neutral...I did not come from a depressed country living in squaller or dictatorship or as a refugee...I just came here to live and work and be a productive, contributing member of this society...
As I've said before I would defend this country from all enemies as I would Canada....Till we meet...

i have always thought you an honorable and well versed being.i look at the 3 north American countries as siblings that like to in-fighting allot but do stand behind each other against the rest of the world.Maybe not as much with Mexico but that bond is still there.

and to be honest socialism has many sub sectors fascism and communism being two of them.Really the only major difference between fascism and garden variety Socialism is a very charismatic leader ....hmmmm.