Better read this and think about it..

**OntarioVanMan** · 07-21-2008, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

Here's some more food for thought directed at the "soak the rich" crowd, based on 2006 figures from the IRS:

The top 1% of income earners (over $388,808) paid 40% of all US income taxes.

The top 10% of income earners paid 71% of all US income taxes.

The top 50% of income earners paid 97% of all US income taxes.

THAT MEANS THE BOTTOM 50% OF ALL INCOME EARNERS PAID 3% OF ALL INCOME TAXES COLLECTED IN THE US IN 2006. According the the US Census Bureau the median household income in 2006 was $48,201.

Maybe our congress should start thinking about spending less of our money than to continue dreaming up ways to take it from us.

Huh? and your complainin? the BOTTOM 50% paid a miserly 3 %????? whats the beef?

**greg334** · 07-21-2008, 03:54 PM

Sorry Guy/Gals there is some that is missed.

The tax system in this country is the worst at this point in the worlds history. Listening to people who study this mess at U of M, it seems that they are afraid that if Obama gets into office and we remain a democratically controlled congress with the wimpy repubs hanging around capitulating, we will see new taxes, the Cap and Trade program come into existence and increases across the board of all taxes.

I know when I handed them over my tax stuff under Obama and the dems plan, I could not be in business anymore. I would have seen an overall increase in my taxes form 41% to 59%. This includes the income, cap gains, self-employement, and so on.

BUT I think many of you who will be voting for Obama miss something, ARROGANCE OF CONGRESS.

While many of us are struggling with making ends meet, some are chasing gas a few pennies cheaper while others still are skipping buying things to keep the kids going to soccer, Oberstar and DeFazio are talking about the need to raise the gas and fuels taxes by 10 cents. Now while McCain is saying we need a gas tax holiday, and Obama is saying that the oil companies will raise prices to take that savings away (which I will touch on in a second), we have the congress going to raise taxes?

Now the problem with the dems position that the oil companies will raise the amount of gas is down right a lie because if they do, it has to be an concerted effort on their part and that can be considered price fixing or collusion - they want the prices lower anyway.

**OntarioVanMan** · 07-21-2008, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by greg334

Sorry Guy/Gals there is some that is missed.

The tax system in this country is the worst at this point in the worlds history. Listening to people who study this mess at U of M, it seems that they are afraid that if Obama gets into office and we remain a democratically controlled congress with the wimpy repubs hanging around capitulating, we will see new taxes, the Cap and Trade program come into existence and increases across the board of all taxes.

I know when I handed them over my tax stuff under Obama and the dems plan, I could not be in business anymore. I would have seen an overall increase in my taxes form 41% to 59%. This includes the income, cap gains, self-employement, and so on.

BUT I think many of you who will be voting for Obama miss something, ARROGANCE OF CONGRESS.

While many of us are struggling with making ends meet, some are chasing gas a few pennies cheaper while others still are skipping buying things to keep the kids going to soccer, Oberstar and DeFazio are talking about the need to raise the gas and fuels taxes by 10 cents. Now while McCain is saying we need a gas tax holiday, and Obama is saying that the oil companies will raise prices to take that savings away (which I will touch on in a second), we have the congress going to raise taxes?

Now the problem with the dems position that the oil companies will raise the amount of gas is down right a lie because if they do, it has to be an concerted effort on their part and that can be considered price fixing or collusion - they want the prices lower anyway.

Gee Greg...you make that much money?....was that a joint filing? Right off the top ya got the 250g's deduct on gains...I seem to remember you own some acrage as well....
Your in Mi and your property values should be dropping hence your gain will follow....

**LDB** · 07-21-2008, 04:03 PM

Ken,

At the least the capital gains portion is fairly accurate as the link I posted shows. I'm sure given the opportunity Obama will reinstate a significant inheritance tax as well. Others are sure to follow even if not proposed yet. I realize parts of it are incorrect, at least for the time being. The basic premise that Obama is going to present a budget with huge spending increases and huger (sic) tax increases is sound. The main point is people should be literally and legitimately in fear financially if Obama wins. I'll also say there better be some fear if McCain wins as well. It will just mandate less fear in that case.

**greg334** · 07-21-2008, 04:20 PM

NO I don't make that kind of money, the point is we all pay about 35 to 45% in all taxes, which includes a wide variety of things. The only one's who don't pay that much in taxes are the poor, in some cases those poor people make more money off the tax system.

And just because you don't pay the feds does not mean you don't pay.

Why do you think I am for the Fair Tax?

**OntarioVanMan** · 07-21-2008, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by LDB

Ken,

At the least the capital gains portion is fairly accurate as the link I posted shows. I'm sure given the opportunity Obama will reinstate a significant inheritance tax as well. Others are sure to follow even if not proposed yet. I realize parts of it are incorrect, at least for the time being. The basic premise that Obama is going to present a budget with huge spending increases and huger (sic) tax increases is sound. The main point is people should be literally and legitimately in fear financially if Obama wins. I'll also say there better be some fear if McCain wins as well. It will just mandate less fear in that case.

Leo...I know where your coming from..the dems have a track record of taxes....

**OntarioVanMan** · 07-21-2008, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by greg334

NO I don't make that kind of money, the point is we all pay about 35 to 45% in all taxes, which includes a wide variety of things. The only one's who don't pay that much in taxes are the poor, in some cases those poor people make more money off the tax system.

And just because you don't pay the feds does not mean you don't pay.

Why do you think I am for the Fair Tax?

So the low wage earners should pay more taxes is what your saying and the better off should pay less?

**greg334** · 07-21-2008, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by OntarioVanMan

So the low wage earners should pay more taxes is what your saying and the better off should pay less?

Well actually if the people want everyone to pay their fair share, everyone must pay - no exceptions. But you know that's a bunch of BS just like the class warfare stuff.

The truth is the fair tax seems to be the way to go. the people below the poverty level pay nothing at all and the people at the top pay a lot more than the people in the middle.

Also just thinking about it, do you know anything about the Ireland miracle economy? Well Ireland is booming and there is a lot of growth going on there. I heard this before but until I heard it again today, I really didn't think much of it. You see Ireland was in the same place we are heading to but they decided to do something about it, they lowered taxes, came up with a lot of regulatory reforms and also worked on a social partnership system. It helped but until the US stopped lowering taxes and became the worst place in the world to do business, Ireland could not get it off the ground.

The other thing that many are missing about the US and taxes is that a lot of the money we have is overseas making money for a lot of people, and congress wants to expand the powers of the IRS to include more invasive banking monitoring because my senator Levin claims that the US is missing out on $100 billion a year, which would be a problem instantly solved if they go to the Fair Tax

**OntarioVanMan** · 07-21-2008, 05:14 PM

I kinda like the way the tax is now...we can make a 100g's and not pay any taxes....Buts that just a singular example....

**Pilgrim** · 07-21-2008, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by OntarioVanMan

Huh? and your complainin? the BOTTOM 50% paid a miserly 3 %????? whats the beef?

My complaint is that the Congress should spend less, not tax more. The other point is that we're about to get to the limit of taxation the rich and semi-rich (middle class) will tolerate. The people in this country that make $108,904 (the top 10%) and over pay 71% of all income taxes at today's rates. How many people on this site does that include? How many two-income households - two schoolteachers for example - does that include? Well, get ready folks because if the messiah B. Hussein Obama gets elected the top 10% is going to be saddled with more of the burden by the Democrats. However, he/they will not do it by voting for a tax increase - he/they will do it by just letting the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010. Congress has to vote to renew these tax rates; if they just don't vote to renew our taxes go up, and they'll claim they never voted for a tax increase. Nice word game, eh? For more details check out the following article in the Wall St. Journal:

Their Fair Share - WSJ.com

**greg334** · 07-21-2008, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by OntarioVanMan

I kinda like the way the tax is now...we can make a 100g's and not pay any taxes....Buts that just a singular example....

Well the fair tax is something like that but without the threat of Deportation

You know some people seem to miss couple things about the fair tax;

1 - They don't think that they are actually paying anything in taxes. This system is the perfect one for those who can't think for themselves. Some think that it is like a big bank and I think this is where people get in trouble because they count on that refund.

2 - A great number of people don't like the fair tax because they can't understand the one basic thing, they don't get anything back because they don't pay income tax. You will not believe the number of people who think that. It is like the home mortgage deduction - it's gone... poof but they feel that they need to get a deduction but don't see that in order for them to get a deduction, they need to give something up before anything else happens.

3 - the most important thing is that people can use the money that the government takes from people to make more money. The lost investment quality of the taxes are included in my 59% number because the more money that is taken out at the front means more money that I lose in the long run.

OH and did I mention that for the trucker it is a real big deal because everything from fuel to parts to a truck does not pay the fair tax.

Have you been audited by a IRS agent who needs points? They will put 7 years of your stuff under a microscope and find things to make you pay and make them look good.