[greg334]

Tallcal,
All politics off to the side, seriously what is the price of land over there and what are the taxes that are applied to foreign ownership of the land?

Also do you think that China would want to trade Hawaii for say Hong Kong?

[tallcal101]

Property values have gone up in the last 5 yerar.Developments that have names like "Long Beach" and "California Shores" (very tacky) feature western style homes with landscaped yards,gold courses,all the amenities and are close by shopping malls. They start at $75,00.00 and go up to $250,000.00 to $300,000.00.
This is not in Bejing or Shanghi,but in the outer provinces. Bejing and Shanghi are in the millions. Hainan Island in the South China sea is a pretty spectacular place with lots of place's to develop right on the ocean,which is warm.
There was early development here,but the banks shut most of the development down midway through the projects. They were seen as to western at the time.
Now western is all the rage and is encouraged. The more western the better.
Since the Yuan has not been devalued,1 US dollar is worth 6.8 Yuan.
A single Yuan has the local buying power of 1 US dollar.
Since I have family in China,I can buy land under the families name. US law firms such as Morrison and Forester have large staffs of lawyers in China to set up land purchace's for US citizens interested in such investments.

I have a good friend in China who I met on one of my trips over after I met my wife on a business trip. He is from Ohio,and was a truck driver for one of the big national carriers and was bored and sick of his job. He was running a dedicated route between Ohio and Florida.
He was a lay preacher and an educated guy.Just bored.He got a job in my wifes hometown teaching english off the internet.He had never been outside the US and went for it.
The town my wife is from was all Mandarin all the time. Things have changed now,english is pretty much everywhere.He took the job,lived for free at the school,and learned Mandarin.
He never came back,not even to visit. He married a local girl,and now actually teach's Sunday school in a Christian Church (now allowed)and is still teaching english. He also owns two homes.He's a hell of lot more like your guys then he is like me,I mean that in a good way.
Enough.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by tallcal101

Three reason to buy vacation ocean front property in China:

1) bushewacked financed his terrorist recruiting tool ,also known as the Iraq war, by utilizeing the Chinese ATM machine in the sky. Knowing that he would be selling future generations debt to the Bank of Asia,he made sure we would beome a debter nation to the Chinese.He did a very good job and we are now a bankrupt nation. If there is a run on the Banks,there is not enough money to cover such an event. Period.There was when dimlightbulb boy took over from Bill.

2)In less then 5 years,China will not be considered a Communist country. They are a bastion of captolism and will dominate the world economy,like it or not. Yes,human rights are a problem (like here)end managing 1.5 billion people,most living below a poverty level unacceptable to us until recently (living in the family car is now routine thanks to bumble boy) is also a challange.Visit the new China and have a look for yourself.If your not interested,I understand. It was companies like Craftsman tools that handed China the keys to the kingdom buy deciding to manufactur US products overseas.Greed begets no jobs except those the immigrants are willing to do. Puzzling that.

3) Most of the Chinese PHD's who flocked to the Silicon Valley have flocked back to China. Better pay,more opportunity and affordable housing. World domination by the Chinese has already happened in case you have not noticed. Where is just about everything in your house made? Most spare parts ? Building materials and the tools to do the building?
Wake up fools,crosseyed dinglebarry boy and his mutant republicans stallworths in congress sold our ***'s down the river. The trade deficit grew a whopping 29 to 35% under this sad excuse for a government the last 8 years.

4) I'll be catching waves off Hunan Island in a few years hangin with my inlaws. I'll keep my place in San Fran and do half time here and half time there.Come by and have a cold Tising Tao and catch the suset. It's the Hawaii of China.

It's obvious that international economics is not your specialty, but to be unaware that the Clinton administration opened the gates to our trade deficit with China is simply a case of Bush-hating denial. Clinton's shady deals with the Chinese fill volumes; from the political donations of the Chinese military to the selling of the Loral missle technology, the Johnny Chung connection, the Chinese political operatives that fled back to the mainland to avoid subpoenas and possible prosecution - the list goes on and on. From an economic standpoint, all this international trade came to a head when the Clinton administration got on board with the NAFTA agreement - remember it was Slick Willie that pushed this deal through congress and happily signed it, and we heard Ross Perot's "giant sucking sound" as heavy manufacturing went out of the country. We now have almost everything we use on a daily basis made in China for one reason - they make it cheaper! In spite of the quality issues and the copyright violations, Wal-Mart, Craftsman, and almost every other retailer seems to get most of their goods from China because the price is lower even after dealing with the transportation issues. Also, foreign investment from the Chinese, Saudis, etc. was prolific long before Bush was elected so don't even think about blaming that on him - Nixon actually got the ball rolling on that, and foreign investment is due to the global economy that is now a reality. But for all the goods the Chinese manufacture, someone has to buy it; if the US stops buying their goods, there is no other country to take our place and they know that. Regarding the US jobs - it's interesting how the liberals choose to ignore all the jobs created by foreign investment and the foreign owned plants that have been built here over the past 8-10 years. Why do you think that unemployment is still less than 5.5%, which has historically been considered full employment? And 93% of all homeowners still pay their mortgages on time with no problems.

So in less than five years China will not be considered a communist country? Go ahead and bet the farm on that one. What will they be - a democracy? Maybe a representative republic? Maybe you'd like to discuss that with someone from Tibet. Try a dictatorship - history has shown how willing communists regimes are to surrender power to their people and the current Chinese govt. is no exception. For them to allow pure capitolism is simply not in sync with their governing philosophy. Their price controls, tight monetary policy and inflation problems are only the first symptoms of the hybrid capitolism problems developing as their economy grows. Granted, their purity of culture, work ethic and appreciation for education are characteristics the US doesn't have right now. But to say the communists won't be in control of China for the foreseeable future is simply unrealistic. Remember Tiananmen Square.

[LDB]

Cal, the problem with your post(s) might be that they always blame Bush for every problem. Certainly he is not perfect and a number of things should have been different. As others have pointed out with the patience I lack for doing so, a good bit of this issue traces it's blame back much longer than just the Bush administration. If you can find a way to criticize more than just Bush you may achieve more credibility to the points that deserve it.

[tallcal101]

Leo,the problem with your posts is that you cannot write two lines with out speaking about the Koolaid.Like we are all robots and marching in unison if we happen to think our country is falling apart and that there maybe ( MAYBE )an alternative to the GOP mess. If your ready to throw in the towel as you think all the canidates are to liberal then toss in the towel. You have my respect and maybe someone will come along next time you can support.But for some of us,who have suffered under this flawed administration,we would like to fix it. Sorry for being so self absorbed Leo, but your negativity is not infectious to all of us.It's what makes you you Leo.But that does not make you right, it only makes you Leo.

I seriously doubt we willl be anymore of a socialist country then we are today (I don't consider solving problems that affect all of us as socialist as long as the rich pay their portion too). But as your all wealthy guys and gals,or at least have no problem with the super wealthy getting a free ticket to ride and be excused from paying their portion,I can see the socialist threat is your big boogie man in the night.Don't loose too much sleep over it,we were all going to be communists or Catholics if Kenndy won,for those who remember.

Pilgram,you really crack me up. Like I don't have full knowledge of the history of how the Chinese took control of the US economy,give me a break. I do appreciate the history lesson,but I have eaten dinner several times at Nixons favorite duck restraunt in Bejing under a photo of Nixon,Pat and Premiear Dung Shou Ping . Nixon is a much loved man in China. as he should be.
I trade with China daily and all our packing material is manufactured in China as is all our staionary and promotional material.The problem I have Pilgram,for your information,is that bush decided to fight this war of choice by finanacing it through the Bank of Asia. The trillions wasted on this war have nothing to do with the trade deficit with China (which has grown 3 times faster then under Clinton) but with the wasted treasure that was the result of this seeingly endless waste of money (not for long thank God). However,if it pleases you to distort the facts as I presented them,then have it buba. It's all going to shift in the very near future while theres still a chance we can regain our once respected stature on this planet as the leaders of the free world and the beacon the rest of the world looks to for tolorance and stability and leadership. Sorry buddy,Clinton left with those in tact,bush leaves with them in shambles. I know,more bush bashing,as though Clinton bashing is OK,but leave poor w alone already. Never,he's done to much damage,sorry boys.

Oh,by the way, for all you future land owners in China,there's no property tax.....yet.

[greg334]

Tallcal
The thing I am seeing is the rich are paying more of their portion, the poor pay nothing and the people in the middle seem to be getting screwed. We get screwed because money is being taken off shore not just because of cheap labor but because of high taxes. When the liberal and socilistic countries of the world are lowering taxes, cutting back on services all the same time growing, we are moving to the point where they are running from.

I don't agree of your premise that we are solving problems and that there is no worry if we do so and it is called socialism. You remember a time before the great society, you know that a lot of the programs that were created to help the poor actually trapped them in an never ending cycle of dependency. Why would you think that we need to solve any problem like we did in the past when the outcome for the few is good but for the many is bad? Wouldn't jobs and allowing people to prosper and have real chances be better?

I take it that you do agree with the squeezing of the people in the middle by any means?

I mean look around man, we have a congress who is controlled by the democrats again, who tell us that we can't use our natural resources and want us to suffer by having more taxes to slow the economy down. I take it you support the downfall of the country like this?

Bush for what it's worth also followed Clinton's lead into Iraq, he followed the UN into Iraq and he is 50% to blame, because the congress, everyone of them - not just the ones who voted to go to war, but everyone one of them has a share of blame.

BUT if you want to gain my support on something like Impeachment, lets impeach the president under not upholding his constitutional duties under Article IV, section 4 - Republican government where The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.



But it won't happen, because the great democratic party also does not want to up hold the Constitution by allowing people to invade our country due to their agenda of grabbing as much power as they can. It is not about giving these people a chance to live here, we have laws and it is those laws that are being ignored. I know this sounds harsh but if you side with the invaders, then you support slavery and human trafficking.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by tallcal101

Leo,the problem with your posts is that you cannot write two lines with out speaking about the Koolaid.Like we are all robots and marching in unison if we happen to think our country is falling apart and that there maybe ( MAYBE )an alternative to the GOP mess. If your ready to throw in the towel as you think all the canidates are to liberal then toss in the towel. You have my respect and maybe someone will come along next time you can support.But for some of us,who have suffered under this flawed administration,we would like to fix it. Sorry for being so self absorbed Leo, but your negativity is not infectious to all of us.It's what makes you you Leo.But that does not make you right, it only makes you Leo.

I seriously doubt we willl be anymore of a socialist country then we are today (I don't consider solving problems that affect all of us as socialist as long as the rich pay their portion too). But as your all wealthy guys and gals,or at least have no problem with the super wealthy getting a free ticket to ride and be excused from paying their portion,I can see the socialist threat is your big boogie man in the night.Don't loose too much sleep over it,we were all going to be communists or Catholics if Kenndy won,for those who remember.

Pilgram,you really crack me up. Like I don't have full knowledge of the history of how the Chinese took control of the US economy,give me a break. I do appreciate the history lesson,but I have eaten dinner several times at Nixons favorite duck restraunt in Bejing under a photo of Nixon,Pat and Premiear Dung Shou Ping . Nixon is a much loved man in China. as he should be.
I trade with China daily and all our packing material is manufactured in China as is all our staionary and promotional material.The problem I have Pilgram,for your information,is that bush decided to fight this war of choice by finanacing it through the Bank of Asia. The trillions wasted on this war have nothing to do with the trade deficit with China (which has grown 3 times faster then under Clinton) but with the wasted treasure that was the result of this seeingly endless waste of money (not for long thank God). However,if it pleases you to distort the facts as I presented them,then have it buba. It's all going to shift in the very near future while theres still a chance we can regain our once respected stature on this planet as the leaders of the free world and the beacon the rest of the world looks to for tolorance and stability and leadership. Sorry buddy,Clinton left with those in tact,bush leaves with them in shambles. I know,more bush bashing,as though Clinton bashing is OK,but leave poor w alone already. Never,he's done to much damage,sorry boys.

Oh,by the way, for all you future land owners in China,there's no property tax.....yet.

Several points here:

(1) You're just kidding with Leo about the Koolaid - right? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You must be into the liberal koolaid big time, but that's OK - you're committed to your beliefs.

(2) Next time you're in Nixon's favorite duck restaurant in China with your pals, be sure to check the spelling of Premier Deng Xiaopeng's name.

(3) There's a difference between distorting your facts and challenging your opinions - and that's what this forum is all about is the civil debate over whether or not our opinions are right, wrong, left, center or whatever. I'm just challenging your opinions as you do mine.

(4) I'd like to hear your detailed explanation of how Bush financed the Iraq war exclusively through the Bank of Asia.

(5) "...our once respected stature on this planet as the leaders of the free world and the beacon the rest of the world looks to for tolorance and stability and leadership. Sorry buddy,Clinton left with those in tact,bush leaves with them in shambles."

You've got to be kidding - thanks to Clinton's kowtowing to the Chinese and the Saudis, his military weaknesses and his commitment to weakening our military, his refusal to deal with terrorist attacks, his refusal to take Bin Laden when he had the chance, his inability to deal with the North Koreans and Somalia, and last but not least - his personal lascivity while in the Oval Office managed to devalue the presidency of the US and the stature of our country to it's lowest level of the century. The humanitarian relief and foreign aid we provide to countries around the world to both friend and foe alike is scarcely matched by any other nation or group of nations anywhere. This gets back to the koolaid thing again - you simply lose all credibility when you try to blame Bush for everything from pestilence in Africa to economic woes in Michigan. Bush and the Republicans aren't all bad - and the Democrats aren't all good. It's not black and white, it's shades of political gray as it always has been.

[always confused]

yes clinton was bad. yes bush is bad. congress is bad. the courts are bad. but this country is still the best thing going i know of. mccain and obama are promising everybody everything, will give everybody nothing. taxes are going up, while they tell us they are trying to help us. as a nation we are too giving. its an oldie but still true - you can't buy friends. i think the 'carry a big stick, and don't be afraid too use it' concept needs to be revived. i think the 'great socal give-away' programs need to be eliminated. i believe crime deserves to be punished. i believe government bail-outs only serve to protect 'the rich'. since they are the ones suporting the political ambitions of our 'elected' representives i'm not suprised.

on the bail-out thing... most business be they banks or or whatever are investments. people buy various investments hoping to gain, but part of the concept is you can lose. so when a 'bank' goes belly up the deposits are protected by fdic, but the investers lose their investment. but if a bail-out occurs their investment is saved. thank goodness the money was there except they took it out of my pocket to put in somebody elses pocket.

i don't think its possible to find an honest ethical politician above the local level anymore. and the higher you go the more of a crook you find.