whats left

[ATeam]

Although I agree with what you post most of the time there are some things posted here I dont agree with. First I think the federal government is a customer of Fedex, not you. And second since all your loads come from Fedex that makes you a dependent contractor. To be independent you would need to become a carrier yourself.

The fact remains that we make more money hauling freight for the government than we pay in taxes, and we remain free to work when we please, for whom we please, and to say yes or no to any offered load.

Call it dependent contractor if you wish. Our carrier and the IRS call it independent contractor and that is the definition that matters. Yes, we are dependent on our carrier for their dispatched loads, but that does not make us a dependent contractor, it only makes us dependent on our carrier for loads.

(We depend on our carrier for other things too, but for this discussion I will stay focued on loads. The other things include safety department services, training, brand recognition, peer group support and more.)

We are not employees in our carrier's eyes or in the eyes of the law. There are legally-established limits to what a carrier can and cannot require under the independent contractor relationship. These limits are constantly tested by various parties in the marketplace and legal arenas. In this discussion, I am not talking about those. I am talking about the individual independent contractor relationship we have this instant with our carrier of choice under the contract now in force.

We choose to get our freight through our carrier's dispatch system. That means we see only the freight our carrier chooses to offer or allows us to get through other means (Home Run program, backhaul department - such as it is). This is a choice freely made and freely continued. We remain free to make other arrangements, like getting our own authority, but as long as our present arrangement meets our needs, it would be foolish to move to an arrangement that does not meet our needs as well.

We have never been so free in a career as we are in this one. Our carrier of choice is not a hinderence to making money as expediters. It is a means of making more money than any other expedite arrangement that we know of (including own-authority), given the personal goals we seek to achieve and lifestyle we seek to enjoy. If we knew of any other career opportunity or way of doing expediting that better meets our needs, we would be doing that.

Look, six years ago, we up and walked away from well-established white-collar lifestyles and careers to become a truck driving team specializing in expedited freight. Now having more money in the bank than we did then, and living a debt-free and mostly property-free, it would be easier still to move on to something else if something else was more attractive. Nothing else is, so we stay where we are.

Within the expediting business, the only dependencies we have are those we choose. If the business shifts to the point where it is no longer profitable and fun, we will walk away from it as freely as we walked into it.

For us, becoming an own-authority carrier would in no way increase the freedom we enjoy in this business. Getting our own authority would mean that instead of being dependent on our carrier's dispatch system for loads, we would become dependent on load boards and/or a customer base that we would then have to develop, maintain and protect. We knew of that trade-off before we became expediters and chose the freedom our carrier's dispatch system provides.

There are a lot of expediters out their who have taken the own-authority approach for good reasons that make good sense to them. We have taken the independent contractor approach with a leading carrier for equally good reasons.

[layoutshooter]

The fact remains that we make more money hauling freight for the government than we pay in taxes, and we remain free to work when we please, for whom we please, and to say yes or no to any offered load.

Call it dependent contractor if you wish. Our carrier and the IRS call it independent contractor and that is the definition that matters. Yes, we are dependent on our carrier for their dispatched loads, but that does not make us a dependent contractor, it only makes us dependent on our carrier for loads.

We are not employees in our carrier's eyes or in the eyes of the law. There are legally-established limits to what a carrier can and cannot require under the independent contractor relationship. These limits are constantly tested by various parties in the marketplace and legal arenas. In this discussion, I am not talking about those. I am talking about the individual independent contractor relationship we have this instant with our carrier of choice under the contract now in force.

We choose to get our freight through our carrier's dispatch system. It is a choice freely made and freely continued. We remain free to make other arrangements, like getting our own authority, but as long as our present arrangement meets our needs, it would be foolish to move to an arrangement that does not meet our needs as well.

We have never been so free in a career as we are in this one. Our carrier of choice is not a hinderence to making money, it is a means of making more money as expediters than any other expedite arrangement (including own-authority) we know of, given the personal goals and lifestyle we have set for ourselves.

If we knew of any other career opportunity or way of doing expediting that better meets our needs, we would be doing that.

Look, six years ago, we up and walked away from well-established white-collar lifestyles and careers to become a truck driving team specializing in expedited freight. Now having more money in the bank than we did then, and now living a debt-free and mostly property free-life, it would be easier still to move on to something else if something else was more attractive. Nothing else is, so we stay where we are.

Within the expediting business, the only dependencies we have are those we choose. If the business shifts to the point where it is no longer profitable and fun, we will walk away from it as freely as we walked into it.

For us, becoming an own-authority carrier would in no way increase the freedom we enjoy in this business. Getting our own authority would mean that instead of being dependent on our carrier's dispatch system for loads, we would become dependent on load boards and/or a customer base that we would then have to develop, maintain and protect. We knew of that trade-off before we became expediters and chose the freedom our carrier's dispatch system provides.

There are a lot of expediters out their who have taken the own-authority approach for good reasons that make good sense to them. We have taken the independent contractor approach with a leading carrier for equally good reasons.

I was not speaking of everday freight and I am not here to argue the fine points of expediting or anything else. The fact remains that the type of loads of which I was speaking carry a MUCH larger risk and WE got bit by it. It will NOT happen again. I am disapointed in the total lack of response from the government but not surprized. They could have at least told me to go fly a kite. They will no longer be given control of this truck, IF, we make it that long.

BE CAREFUL when looking at these loads!!

[davekc]

Phil, I think you may be mis-understanding what I am speaking about. I was not talking about the DOT etc. What I meant was the hurricane damage to my truck during Gustav last summer.

One of the first things you learn when you go into firefighting or any other kind of emergency services is NEVER to put your "assets" in danger. If you lose your fire truck or you firefighters you can no longer help those you went into help.

The shelters was put into areas that were LIKELY to be hit by the full force of a landfalling hurricane. NOT WISE. That is about the same as if I had parked a fire truck right up against a burning buidling.

Then, we have to give up control of our truck (business) once we accept one of these loads. CDC/FEMA would NOT allow us to evacuate prior to that storm hitting and we had time to do so. On top of that we were TOLD where we had to park. Despite the objections of the FedEx lead driver on the scence AND our objections, we HAD to park where I considered to be an un-safe parking spot. Those of us who objected were proven correct as 8 trucks were damaged by parts of the roof that came off from the building we were parked next too. There WERE other available safer parking areas. We were NOT allowed to use them.

Now, I realize that I took that load of my own free will. They really don't pay all that well but we wanted to help out with the effort. There were people that needed assistance and we had the capability.

FedEx has been wonderful during this entire mess as they realize that we did NOTHING wrong during the entire episode.

I have learned from this. I will NO LONGER run these loads. I am sorry if that means that some people do not recieve the aid that they might need or that FedEx has problems covering the loads. I cannot afford a repeat.

That can change. IF the Feds take responsibility for damage caused by these storms while they control our trucks. That is not likely to happen. I have written my congressman about this and he never even replied, that is nothing new, he rarely does. Writting him is about as useful as talking to wallboard.

Our down time insurance is NOT able to cover long down times and it is NOT going to change. I have NOT been able as yet, to find better down time coverage. Under the current conditions I feel that these loads are NOT an acceptable risk. Too great a chance of major damage with little to no chance of recovering the loss.

I burnt up 100% of our reserves on this. We were in very good shape until this happened. The losses have been staggering and we are still wondering if our business can survive this. It seems less likely with each passing day.

I cannot predict what will happen to us. I am not looking for sympathy either. Everyone here should be aware of the EXTREME risk that these loads present. They should also spend a very long time giving their down time coverage a LONG look. Learn from our mis-fortune. BE VERY CAREFUL when accepting these loads and be aware that only YOU are responsible for your damage. Even if you DO NOT control your truck.

And now we have what Layout was actually talking about. Sometimes a few ASSUME too much.

[ATeam]

That's the great thing about capitalism. People either sink or swim (not saying you sank). Those that sink leave more room in the pool for those that still have the strength to swim. Some in Washington have forgotten this.

We must also remember that there are people out there who can't swim and never will be able to learn, or if they could have once learned, it is now too late. What of them?

Do we let a person in a wheel chair sink simply because he or she cannot swim? Do we let a prison inmate rot in jail because his parents never saw to it that he learn how to read and work? Do we let an able-bodied war veteran live a life on the street because he or she does not even know of one's mental illness?

The problem with sink or swim is that the non-swimmers do not conveniently sink out of sight. What of them?

[OntarioVanMan]

We must also remember that there are people out there who can't swim and never will be able to learn, or if they could have once learned, it is now too late. What of them?

Do we let a person in a wheel chair sink simply because he or she cannot swim? Do we let a prison inmate rot in jail because his parents never saw to it that he learn how to read and work? Do we let an able-bodied war veteran live a life on the street because he or she does not even know of one's mental illness?

The problem with sink or swim is that the non-swimmers do not conveniently sink out of sight. What of them?

Ahhh..That is life....The weak perish and the strong survive...so be it ...

to continue..the world needs balance...too many weak people vs strong...there is no balance and things get out of whack....Same the other way around...it is all about balance.

[ATeam]

Phil, I think you may be mis-understanding what I am speaking about. I was not talking about the DOT etc. What I meant was the hurricane damage to my truck during Gustav last summer.

You have written about this before in the Open Forum and I know about the damage your truck sustained.

One of the first things you learn when you go into firefighting or any other kind of emergency services is NEVER to put your "assets" in danger. If you lose your fire truck or you firefighters you can no longer help those you went into help.

Having never been trained as a firefighter, I have never learned that lesson about assets. But in the U.S. Army Infantry, and as a financial planner, I learned to never become decisively engaged. Always maintain the ability to maneuver. Invest and diversify your assets such that an adverse move in one area will not wipe you out. Whether it is fighting fires, fighting an enemy that intends to kill you or managing your money, I think we are talking mostly about the same thing.

In business, they talk about being sufficiently capitalized. To be undercapitalized is to put your assets in danger, become decisively engaged and position your assets such that a single adverse event can wipe you out.

The shelters was put into areas that were LIKELY to be hit by the full force of a landfalling hurricane. NOT WISE. That is about the same as if I had parked a fire truck right up against a burning buidling.

Then, we have to give up control of our truck (business) once we accept one of these loads. CDC/FEMA would NOT allow us to evacuate prior to that storm hitting and we had time to do so. On top of that we were TOLD where we had to park. Despite the objections of the FedEx lead driver on the scence AND our objections, we HAD to park where I considered to be an un-safe parking spot. Those of us who objected were proven correct as 8 trucks were damaged by parts of the roof that came off from the building we were parked next too. There WERE other available safer parking areas. We were NOT allowed to use them.

Now, I realize that I took that load of my own free will. They really don't pay all that well but we wanted to help out with the effort. There were people that needed assistance and we had the capability.

FedEx has been wonderful during this entire mess as they realize that we did NOTHING wrong during the entire episode.

I have learned from this. I will NO LONGER run these loads. I am sorry if that means that some people do not recieve the aid that they might need or that FedEx has problems covering the loads. I cannot afford a repeat.

We have done hurricane work, just like you and will do so again. The difference is that even if our entire truck was wiped out, it would not put us under. We have never entered an expedtie situation of any kind without the ability to maneuver out of it, including maneuvering out of the business itself if it came to that.

That can change. IF the Feds take responsibility for damage caused by these storms while they control our trucks. That is not likely to happen. I have written my congressman about this and he never even replied, that is nothing new, he rarely does. Writting him is about as useful as talking to wallboard.

Our down time insurance is NOT able to cover long down times and it is NOT going to change. I have NOT been able as yet, to find better down time coverage. Under the current conditions I feel that these loads are NOT an acceptable risk. Too great a chance of major damage with little to no chance of recovering the loss.

I burnt up 100% of our reserves on this. We were in very good shape until this happened. The losses have been staggering and we are still wondering if our business can survive this. It seems less likely with each passing day.

I cannot predict what will happen to us. I am not looking for sympathy either. Everyone here should be aware of the EXTREME risk that these loads present. They should also spend a very long time giving their down time coverage a LONG look. Learn from our mis-fortune. BE VERY CAREFUL when accepting these loads and be aware that only YOU are responsible for your damage. Even if you DO NOT control your truck.

The down time lesson is a good one that EVERY expediter would be wise to consider and prepare for. You can miss your step climbing out of your truck and break a leg that takes you out for six months. A serious accident can occur in which you are injured and claims are tied up in court for years. A major recession can develop that slows the pace of freight for a year or more. Or, like Layoutshooter, you can find yourself in a situation that you cannot easily escape and truck damage and an unsatisfactory claim process results.

In every such case, an expediter that was fully prepared to get through the down time will be better off than the one that must rely on an insurance or liability claim to get one through.

Expediting is a dangerous business. Adverse events happen. People get hurt out here physically and financially. It is not a business to enter unprepared for such events.

[OntarioVanMan]

I suppose the term "preparedness" would include up to total truck wipeout/destruction? But how can one estimate the degree of preparedness..that some things are beyond ones control?

[layoutshooter]

You have written about this before in the Open Forum and I know about the damage your truck sustained.



Having never been trained as a firefighter, I have never learned that lesson about assets. But in the U.S. Army Infantry, and as a financial planner, I learned to never become decisively engaged. Always maintain the ability to maneuver. Invest and diversify your assets such that an adverse move in one area will not wipe you out. Whether it is fighting fires, fighting an enemy that intends to kill you or managing your money, I think we are talking mostly about the same thing.

In business, they talk about being sufficiently capitalized. To be undercapitalized is to put your assets in danger, become decisively engaged and position your assets such that a single adverse event can wipe you out.



We have done hurricane work, just like you and will do so again. The difference is that even if our entire truck was wiped out, it would not put us under. We have never entered an expedtie situation of any kind without the ability to maneuver out of it, including maneuvering out of the business itself if it came to that.



The down time lesson is a good one that EVERY expediter would be wise to consider and prepare for. You can miss your step climbing out of your truck and break a leg that takes you out for six months. A serious accident can occur in which you are injured and claims are tied up in court for years. A major recession can develop that slows the pace of freight for a year or more. Or, like Layoutshooter, you can find yourself in a situation that you cannot easily escape and truck damage and an unsatisfactory claim process results.

In every such case, an expediter that was fully prepared to get through the down time will be better off than the one that must rely on an insurance or liability claim to get one through.

Expediting is a dangerous business. Adverse events happen. People get hurt out here physically and financially. It is not a business to enter unprepared for such events.

Good night. I can see that this is a waste of my time. When I have trouble swimming I will go buy my own anchor. I pray that someone learns from this. As for me, I will do what it takes.

As to the placing of assets, I was speaking of the foolish placement of the shelters. IF the shelter can be taken out by the storm that people need shelter from, it is NOT either a good shelter OR it is too close to the coast. In the case of Gustav and the LSU buidlings, it was both. It IS quite obvious that those higher ups in FEMA have little to NO PRACTICAL experinece. Not much more than political hacks.

[mypie]

Good night. I can see that this is a waste of my time. When I have trouble swimming I will go buy my own anchor. I pray that someone learns from this. As for me, I will do what it takes.

As to the placing of assets, I was speaking of the foolish placement of the shelters. IF the shelter can be taken out by the storm that people need shelter from, it is NOT either a good shelter OR it is too close to the coast. In the case of Gustav and the LSU buidlings, it was both. It IS quite obvious that those higher ups in FEMA have little to NO PRACTICAL experinece. Not much more than political hacks.

Layshooter, I am not familiar with what happened to you and your truck during Gustav. I did hear that some trucks were damaged and FedEx paid insurance claims since the trucks were under a load and the drivers were acting on behalf of FedEx. Did FedEx's insurance not cover your damage?

[layoutshooter]

Yes, the claim was paid and a new box put on. Due to a gross comedy of errors the 3 weeks of work stretched into 3 months. FedEx insurance only pays down time for 30 days. The loss of income was high and we were forced to pay bills with money that was for others things. Just a VERY bad year. Stuff happens.

[mypie]

My heart and prayers go out to you and your family. Just remember that this too will pass. Hang in there, if you can. There is nothing better out there in the "real world", still a lot of people unemployed and others still loosing their homes. So, if you don't have to, try to stick with it. Your chances of survival as I see it are better right where you are.

[ATeam]

I suppose the term "preparedness" would include up to total truck wipeout/destruction? But how can one estimate the degree of preparedness..that some things are beyond ones control?

You are exactly right. Life itself is a terminal condition. People who make a living in the safety of their home office drop dead there too. One minimizes the physical risks in an expediting business by operating safely, but the risks remain. One minimizes the financial risks in an expediting business by managing the business well, and especially by maintaining a strong capital base. Yet physically and financially, random events lurk out there that can wipe you out.

How safe is too safe? How much capital is too much? I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all answer. I do think it is essential for every expediter to consider and establish safety and capital practices before entering the business. If you enter the business with little capital, it should be a top priority to build your capital as quickly as you can.

[ATeam]

I pray that someone learns from this. As for me, I will do what it takes.

Anyone paying attention can learn from this thread. You make it clear that: (1) truck damage can be sustained that will take you out of the business for a time, (2) full compensation for down time is not readily available, and (3) vendors cannot be counted upon to do what they say will do.

It is a good scenario for any expediter to think through. What if your truck or van was damaged such that it could not be used to generate income until it was repaired? What if it took three months to get the repair done? What if any claim you made for damages was denied outright or delayed such that the only way to get the repair done is to pay for it yourself and fight for the claim later?

[layoutshooter]

Anyone paying attention can learn from this thread. You make it clear that: (1) truck damage can be sustained that will take you out of the business for a time, (2) full compensation for down time is not readily available, and (3) vendors cannot be counted upon to do what they say will do.

It is a good scenario for any expediter to think through. What if your truck or van was damaged such that it could not be used to generate income until it was repaired? What if it took three months to get the repair done? What if any claim you made for damages was denied outright or delayed such that the only way to get the repair done is to pay for it yourself and fight for the claim later?

That was the point I was trying to make, that even IF you plan and save anything can happen to anyone at anytime. It IS possible for bad things to happen to good people REGUARDLESS of planning. The idea is to minimize the risk as much as possible.

That is why we will NO LONGER take a CDC/FEMA load that REQIURES us to give up control of our vehical. I will retain that right. If that means that loads go un-covered, so be it. That is GOOD business sense for US.

[wellarmed]

What? Sink or swim,wheelchairs and veterans. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Expediting is a business each truck is your competitor,the less competitors the better your business. The demand is down and the supply is to great, the supply is getting smaller day after day week after week and month after month,the demand could possibly return before the economy bounces back,at least to a sustainable level do to the smaller supply. I'm not trying to be cold hearted I am seeing good friends fall out. The fact remains this is a business not a swimming pool,not a home for the handicap and not veterans affairs and again don't get me wrong I have a soft spot for veterans and the handicapped and if you can't swim stay away from the water. OH, I almost forgot the prisoners,if you can't do the time than don't do the crime. There are teachers and books and the opportunity is there in prison with them,they should take advantage of it letting them out because the poor little criminal that stole your freight or raped your daughter or killed your son that just returned home from two tours of duty defending the rights of all of us,because he can't read. Give me a frickin break!!!!!!!!!!!! They have three hots and a cot let them rot,they have more than our guys at war.