Rules and Regulations

**Fritzy50** · 09-29-2007, 12:05 PM

I have a few questions regarding rules and regulations. In a reply to my last post, a log book was mentioned. As a driver of a non cdl 22ft. straight truck hauling commercial freight, am I required too, and should I be maintaining one? Are there restrictions on driving time,? Sleep time? What about weight limits on the load for this truck? I do not want to be playing with fire!!! If anyone knows of a site that spells out all the rules and regs for this industry please advise.
Thanks,

**Crazynuff** · 09-29-2007, 12:05 PM

Drivers of trucks over 10,000 lbs gvw are required to keep a log . Your employer should have provided you with one as well as a copy of the FMCSA handbook . The employer is required to keep a copy of your logs for 6 months . You can get logbooks and the FMCSA guidebook at most fuel stops . http://tinyurl.com/2m5z5d Most logbooks explain the Hours Of Service . If your employer has a 6 day work week you are limited to 60 hours in 7 days . Drivers with employers working 7 days a week are limited to 70 hours in 8 days . This is limited to no more than 11 hours driving without a ten hour break . You also cannot drive after being on duty for 14 hours . For example , if you work 5 hours on the dock , then start driving you can only drive 9 hours before taking a 10 hour break . You CAN work over 14 hours a day at duties other than driving . ALL compensated time must be logged as on duty and you must show on duty hours for the past 7 days (14 in Canada)in your log book .You are also required to have a DOT medical card and the truck must display a DOT number . Being in a random drug pool is also required . Now these are Federal rules . If you don't leave the state check your state DMV for requirements
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...fmcsrguide.htm

**MikeC** · 09-29-2007, 02:46 PM

Fritzy can you explain your definition of a non cdl 22 foot straight truck hauling commercial freight? Is the straight truck licensed at under 25,999 lbs gvw?
I thought all of the rules were covered with you last month,as Crazy said any vehicle hauling commercil freight that is over 10,000 lbs gvw must log and the people you are hauling for should have the materials and explanations for you. If not I would question staying with them. It might be a good idea to check up on the trucks insurance policy.

**Fritzy50** · 09-29-2007, 05:55 PM

Mike,
Thanks for the reply. Here is the situation. I am a driver for a small expediting company that was started 6 months ago. He has 4 vans and 2- 22ft. straight trucks. The trucks are both 25,999 gvw and do not require a cdl to drive. This is the truck that I drive. I do not have a cdl. My loads have ranged from 200 lbs to 13,000 lbs. I do drive out of state often. My runs are solo, 200 to 1000 miles. Average 900 to 1300 miles a week. I am paid .50 per mile no deadhead pay. 50% of my miles are deadhead. No expenses to me except for food. My concerns are regarding being LEGAL and SAFE. I am sure that I have been overloaded for that truck 3 or 4 times (what is weight limit). Let me add that I have driven over 10 hr stretchs and do not get 8 hrs sleep in between. Also, I have not used a log. I am new to this industry and plan on staying around because I like it. I am trying to get right on these issues to be LEGAL and SAFE. If a driver is overweight at scales or caught without a log can he be busted or is it the company owner. Is it fines, jail or both.I think I am being taken advantage of by a shady owner and will start to look for a new employer. Live and learn. Thanks for the link to the Fed.site. Thanks....

**terryandrene** · 09-29-2007, 06:18 PM

Sounds to me that in addition to setting money aside for food, you'd best set aside some money for your bail bondsman, a lawyer and serious fines. 200-1000 mile runs, particularly interstate, require you to maintain a logbook. Being found overweight for the trucks GVWR or per axle will create a world of hurt for you also. Remember it is the Driver's responsibility to maintain a log, You get caught, you get the fine.

You would seem to meet all of the IRS's definitions of an employee of the truck's owner. Does your owner classify you as an independent contractor or does he hold back FICA and withholding taxes and provide you benefits beyond the 50 cents/mile?

**riverrat2000** · 09-29-2007, 06:21 PM

after reading your post all I can say is I hope you like small areas like a 6x 10 cell and plan on being broke the rest of your life with all the fines you are going to rack up the first time you get pulled over, and all for a quarter a mile, wow if you ever get your cdls let me know I have another truck I will put you in. seriously you need to find out and follow the rules, the DOT has no sense of humor at all

**greg334** · 09-29-2007, 07:21 PM

Fritzy50

#1 - I would venture to guess that you are running illegal and been lucky not getting caught.

#2 - YOU are totally and completely responsible for that truck when you get behind the wheel, no one else. If you drive it without a DOT numbers on the truck, a CDL or logging, it is you and only you that will be in real trouble. The owner can make excuses and may get out of trouble but you will go broke quick defending yourself.

#3- If you are driving for an company that is not private and they do not have an authority to operate interstate, than that is also your problem.

#4 - you can not under State of Michigan laws and policies be on duty beyond 14 hours in a day. Sorry Crazynuff, I asked this specific question three ways to the MSP and the answer was the same - not beyond 14 hours but no mention of a split off duty/sleeper time?

#5 - being overloaded is another problem, I would venture to guess because you are not aware of the laws and regulations (because you don't have a CDL) and not knowing that being overloaded can not always be a fine but a complete inspection and unloading of the truck right there to other trucks so other fines can be assessed.

What I would do in all honestly is find somewhere else to work that would not take advantage of you like this. The owner(s) do know what they are doing but it takes one accident where someone is dead to mess you up for the rest of your life.

**arkjarhead** · 09-30-2007, 12:27 AM

what you need to do if you want to stay in this biz in my mind is this...

1. Quit working were you're now immediatley. If they try to say it's legal, keep walking. Chances are they know it will all be one you and do not care.

2. Go to truck driving school. Learn all the rules and ins and outs.

3. Find someone to work for who will train you properly. I'm sure you can find an owner in a straight truck who will team you up with an experienced driver. Chances are you have developed some bad habits and didn't know it, you need someone to help you break those habits.

4. BE PATIENT AND SOAK IT ALL IN !!!!!!

Some others may disagree, but this is what I'd do if I were you. I'm not trying to talk to you like a kid. You already are underpaid, you don't need fines on top of that. This site is great, but it is nothing compared to some one on one face to face instruction. Yes you can learn alot here. Try to learn all you can here, but some things have to be learned on the road not the computer. Good Luck.

**Crazynuff** · 09-30-2007, 09:12 AM

>Fritzy50
>
>#1 - I would venture to guess that you are running illegal
>and been lucky not getting caught.
>
>#2 - YOU are totally and completely responsible for that
>truck when you get behind the wheel, no one else. If you
>drive it without a DOT numbers on the truck, a CDL or
>logging, it is you and only you that will be in real
>trouble. The owner can make excuses and may get out of
>trouble but you will go broke quick defending yourself.
>
>#3- If you are driving for an company that is not private
>and they do not have an authority to operate interstate,
>than that is also your problem.
>
>#4 - you can not under State of Michigan laws and policies
>be on duty beyond 14 hours in a day. Sorry Crazynuff, I
>asked this specific question three ways to the MSP and the
>answer was the same - not beyond 14 hours but no mention of
>a split off duty/sleeper time?
>
>#5 - being overloaded is another problem, I would venture to
>guess because you are not aware of the laws and regulations
>(because you don't have a CDL) and not knowing that being
>overloaded can not always be a fine but a complete
>inspection and unloading of the truck right there to other
>trucks so other fines can be assessed.
>
>What I would do in all honestly is find somewhere else to
>work that would not take advantage of you like this. The
>owner(s) do know what they are doing but it takes one
>accident where someone is dead to mess you up for the rest
>of your life.
I have to disagree with #4 . Say he was on the road and came in with 10 hours logged and came in and worked 5 hours on the dock . That would be 15 hours on duty with no violation .
ON #5 he can drive the truck he is driving without a CDL BUT if DOT weighs an overloaded truck that weighs over 26,000 lbs. he will be pulled out of the truck and fined for not having a CDL .
I'd say it won't be long before one of this company's trucks is stopped . That will surely result in an investigation . Could this company get insurance without giving proof of authority ?

**greg334** · 09-30-2007, 11:36 AM

Crazy,
I understand what you are saying, but do you log your work on the dock opposed to on the truck? If you log it, it is truck time and it is a violation.

If the truck is a 25,000 GVW and he has lets say 33,000 on it, he will receive both the fine for being overweight and no CDL. He will not be allowed (in most cases) to move that truck until the load is transferred to another truck to bring it down below the GVW.

Yes you can get insurance without an authority, just like I can get insurance without a drivers license.

**Fritzy50** · 09-30-2007, 01:44 PM

First off, thanks to all for advice,explanations and questions answered. My Dad taught me that the only stupid questions are the ones you dont ask. So I am glad I did. I also realize that I should have done my homework a little sooner rather than after the fact. But at any rate I am thankful that I did not get stopped or cause any accidents that would have caused me or anyone else some major grief. Yesterday afternoon I got a call from the company owner for a dispatch today. I took the opportunity to ask about all the issues addressed here. Man did he dance with a mouthfull of marbles.Our conversation was just long enough for me to say I QUIT!! mail me my checks!!!! I also offered my opinion of him and his company.I am now going to get my class b cdl w/hazmat and look for a legit company.
I also hope this was insightfull to other newbies.
Thanks Again...

**RichM** · 09-30-2007, 02:08 PM

Good luck you certainly made the right decision. When you get your license check out the driver positions in the EO Classified section.There are always fleet owners looking to add a driver.

**Crazynuff** · 09-30-2007, 04:46 PM

>Crazy,
>I understand what you are saying, but do you log your work
>on the dock opposed to on the truck? If you log it, it is
>truck time and it is a violation.
>
>If the truck is a 25,000 GVW and he has lets say 33,000 on
>it, he will receive both the fine for being overweight and
>no CDL. He will not be allowed (in most cases) to move that
>truck until the load is transferred to another truck to
>bring it down below the GVW.
>
>Yes you can get insurance without an authority, just like I
>can get insurance without a drivers license.
Read the part on 14 hour rule . http://fleetowner.com/mag/fleet_straight_talk/

**greg334** · 09-30-2007, 07:43 PM

Crazy,
er... that was written in 2004 and not the way some including the FMCSA have decided the way that it works. just looking at the log examples from different sites, I never seen anything beyond 14 hours.

The reason for the exception beyond the 14 hour rule was only to benefit the short haul drivers and not to go beyond 16 hours as an exception for 2 days in a week. We don't fall under that exception and but do fall under the 2 hour extension for adverse weather.

"May not drive after the 14th hour after coming on duty 5 days a week or after the 16th hour after coming on duty 2 days a week." - from the FMCSA site.

Having a conversation with friends at the MSP about logging a while ago, they would park the truck for a 10 hour reset if you go past that 14 hour point unless there is something that they felt would justify a 34 hour reset like a third day exceeding or bumping up to the 16 hour exception for short haul.

**arkjarhead** · 09-30-2007, 09:09 PM

fritzy,
If you ask me you made the right choice. This can be a really fun job, but it takes some time to work your why in. Just remember if it sounds to good to be true it probobly is.