Is it the ECONOMY? Or are we to blame for the low rates?

**Humble2drive** · 01-27-2010, 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by davekc

Yep...in a nutshell that is the whole philosophy of sending a load out to multiple trucks and seeing who is the dumbest to run it for pennies.

Therein lies the problem. Those who stand up and say NO to cheap freight go unnoticed as the next guy will grab it.

**pelicn** · 01-27-2010, 09:52 AM

Each truck out here should know what it takes to run their business. If truck A can run a load with a profit but truck B can not, is that truck A's problem? Competition is a good thing, and makes businessmen think outside the box or go under.
We have quite a few of those businessmen on this forum, listening to them will benefit us all.

**greg334** · 01-27-2010, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by guido4475

Alot of us don't realize the power we have out here, but we don't apply it accordingly.

But Guido, it is nice to have the power but a lot don't.

For example, you are part of that company that sends out notices for a load all at once (not trying to beat them up but they make a near perfect example). You don't have much of a choice in how you get loads, the system is setup to make you think you don't have any choice and jump at every load you get. However you get an offer via phone this time and refuse the offer because it is too low, where does that offer go then?

To the truck sitting next to you?

Maybe.

But just maybe it is handed over to a 3PL or partner carrier to deal with, you can't control that can you?

The company nows sees the advantage of outsourcing it to someone else because you refused what they may consider a fair offer but you don't. Just maybe it will become part of a "two or more loads" sitting on a single truck that some of us can do. You as a contractor for that company can't take multiple loads.

But you refused the load and got dinged for a refusal which means you are now sit waiting for another load offer in a system that will send it to a lot of trucks at the same time. When your acceptance rate gets high enough, they start asking you what's the problem and you tell them "cheap freight" so they tell you "we have to service our customers, not you" so now you are faced with a performance issue.

**guido4475** · 01-27-2010, 12:03 PM

Greg, I see where you are coming from, but what I was trying to say was that if we all would stick together and say no to cheap freight, then maybe things would change.But they won't.Because we all can't stick together.Or some of us are too broke because of cheap freight rates to refuse cheap freight.Sounds funny, but it's sad and true.

When I am offered a load, I am interested in the total pay for all miles,loaded and empty combined. I have a figure I don't go under, and it seems to work out well.In 2008, while I was at Polly, that # was $1.25 for all miles while in a s/t, and it worked out well.I made a poopload of $ that year.

**TeamCaffee** · 01-27-2010, 12:17 PM

We each own our business and each of us have our own CPM so your cheap freight will make me money and my cheap freight will make someone else money.

Knowing my cost per mile will keep me in business and I do not need to know what your cost per mile is.

As business owners there is no sticking together we are all our here to make money.

**guido4475** · 01-27-2010, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by TeamCaffee

We each own our business and each of us have our own CPM so your cheap freight will make me money and my cheap freight will make someone else money.

Knowing my cost per mile will keep me in business and I do not need to know what your cost per mile is.

As business owners there is no sticking together we are all our here to make money.

So pretty much youre saying it's okay to stab each other in the back, according to your last paragraph.Real nice.

**TeamCaffee** · 01-27-2010, 12:25 PM

Do you see Wal-Mart supporting the other grocery stores in the area when they move into a city.

If I lose my business because we are supporting each other are you going to give up your load to help me?

We are business owners and as such our business comes first.

**pelicn** · 01-27-2010, 12:26 PM

That isn't what she's saying at all! Does any other business look at another business and say, because they charge x.xx I'm not going to charge less than that?
We are in business to make money, those that run at a loss will not stay in business long.

**TeamCaffee** · 01-27-2010, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Humble2drive

Therein lies the problem. Those who stand up and say NO to cheap freight go unnoticed as the next guy will grab it.

What is the dollar figure on cheap freight? Is it the same dollar figure no matter what part of the country you are in? Can you define cheap freight for all of us here on EO by truck size?

**aileron** · 01-27-2010, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by greg334

But you refused the load and got dinged for a refusal which means you are now sit waiting for another load offer in a system that will send it to a lot of trucks at the same time. When your acceptance rate gets high enough, they start asking you what's the problem and you tell them "cheap freight" so they tell you "we have to service our customers, not you" so now you are faced with a performance issue.

Greg,

To be honest, I only worry about my bottom line. If I don't make money, I do not do the load. I don't care if I am dinged with a refusal. Since my company went to the new load opportunity system, I cannot see my acceptance ratio, but I believe it is waaaay below 50%. Believe me, I would have a 100% acceptance if I would be offered all good loads. If it comes to the point of being let go because of my acceptance ratio, so be it. I will not run loads that are not profitable to me, just for the opportunity to be with a specific company.

Since we are on a flat rate now, I can only play with the deadhead and loaded miles, and extra pay for extra stuff like hazmat and a like.

Last week I got a load opportunity for a hazmat load, 130 deadhead miles and 150 loaded miles, no extra pay for hazmat. Of course I refused it right away. 10 min later I get a call on the phone for this load. The dispatcher says, "I am calling you about this xxx load. You are the only van in the area, the load is ready, the customer is waiting for us. Can you help us out? But we cannot increase the pay". I told her that it is hazmat and if she at least pay me the extra dollars for the hazmat, than we can talk about it, otherwise I am not interested. I cannot do all those miles for .85 per loaded and some .10 a mile surcharge. And a hazmat load at that.

I feel sorry for them, I would like to be able to help them, and I used to help them with cheaper loads when we were on the percentage since I knew it would even out with those great paying loads. But now, I cannot.

**TeamCaffee** · 01-27-2010, 01:35 PM

Just imagine we all band together and what rate should we jack the rates up to?
How about $1.25 or $1.50 all the way up to $5.00 a mile. Now let’s say we agree on $3.00 a mile and we are all happy! Now two things are going to happen one everyone is going to want to get into this business as we will make easy money. Two, we get an offer to go into an area where there is no freight and we have to come out free no one will take any freight into that area so now the private carrier buys their own truck and now we lose more freight. Now there are so many trucks trying to make easy money we will all have to wait longer for our turn at the $3.00 a mile rate how long will we wait for that load?
Next what will happen is we move our lifestyle up to $3.00 a mile we know it was easy for all of us to band together we now need to raise the rate again.
The real cost of freight is a combination of the least someone is willing to haul it for and then what someone is willing to pay to have the load moved. The combination of these two facts sets the rates.

This may seem cold or sad but this is reality of how capitalism works it comes down to supply and demand.

**fastrod** · 01-27-2010, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by TeamCaffee

What is the dollar figure on cheap freight? Is it the same dollar figure no matter what part of the country you are in? Can you define cheap freight for all of us here on EO by truck size?

I sure can. Anything under 90 cpm in a van, $1.40 in a straight truck and $1.80 in a T/T would be cheap freight.

**piper1** · 01-27-2010, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by greg334

But you refused the load and got dinged for a refusal which means you are now sit waiting for another load offer in a system that will send it to a lot of trucks at the same time. When your acceptance rate gets high enough, they start asking you what's the problem and you tell them "cheap freight" so they tell you "we have to service our customers, not you" so now you are faced with a performance issue.

And if this happens Greg...you move on. If your acceptance rate falls below what the carrier thinks is acceptable, and most give you a pretty good latitude, YOU as a BUSINESS, are partnered with the wrong carrier.

If I open a store selling widgets at $4 and all my customers come in and tell me they are too expensive and leave without buying anything, telling me that Larry around the corner sells them for $2, I have choices to make. 1) lower my price to get the business if I can find a way to afford it, 2) Move to a different neighborhood where there is no competition or better demographics, 3) Decide that maybe the widget business isn't for me or 4) Be stubborn, blame everyone else and go broke.

There will always be guys who will move cheap freight, because to them it isn't cheap, or they are not smart enough to know what cheap is. There is a steady stream of newbies who many carriers prey on to be that ignorant of their own costs. This is a reality in the trucking business as a whole and it is addicted to this supply of cheap trucks, it isn't going to go away. If we all push back...the carriers will just get someone else to move it because they can.

Not to paint all newbies with the same brush but look at how many of them come on here and are mere days away from orientation and are asking questions like "how much money can I make" or "the recruiter said I would make $x.xx a mile is that true". When they ask questions about trucks they want to talk about big bunks and toys, not fuel mileage and repairs. Now tell me...how many of them are really prepared to run a smart profitable business? After 6 months it's FedEx's or Panthers fault and they are "crooks" or "liars" and now they are broke. Or they had a breakdown and got mad because they had no money to fix the truck and the carrier wouldn't help them out. Even spending just 4 hours reading posts on this website should at the very least send most back to the "is this right for me" phase and do more research.....sadly most just jump in because it sounds so easy.

If you are turning down many loads your carrier offers...why stay? They obviously don't have the freight that fits your business model. It's not thier fault...it's business.

Blaming a carrier for your lot in life is like complaining about the cold weather, if you hate it that much....MOVE.

**TeamCaffee** · 01-27-2010, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by fastrod

I sure can. Anything under 90 cpm in a van, $1.40 in a straight truck and $1.80 in a T/T would be cheap freight.

How do you justify those figures? How long do should I sit until I am offered $1.40 in a bad area while sitting next to my competition who would also like to get out of this area.

**pelicn** · 01-27-2010, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by fastrod

I sure can. Anything under 90 cpm in a van, $1.40 in a straight truck and $1.80 in a T/T would be cheap freight.

Those may be your numbers for "cheap" but my numbers for "cheap" are higher than that.
So in that case you are hauling the "cheap" freight and not being a "team player".
We are all different, and have different needs. If you want a set rate, then you need to be a company driver, they get .xx per mile.

Fastrod, the "you" didn't mean you specifically.