[greg334]

Hey Cheri,

The problem is Deming tried to sell them these ideas when their market share was like 55 plus % and they already knew what was going to happen but ignored all of it.

The other problems is it is not far fetched to blame the UAW for these problems, they have stood in the way of flexible manufacturing, they have stood in the way of automation and they have had a hand in management for almost 30 years, so they as a key component are to blame for a number of set backs in the industry.

You know there is a plant in this state owned by a Japaneses company who can change their entire assembly line over in a few hours were Ford still has to take weeks. They can't use the labor at the Ford plant to keep the people busy cleaning, painting or even helping with the change over because of the Union.

They outlived their usefulness as a collective force a long time ago, like in the 80's. Working in the plants is not like it was in the 30's where you worked or you found a another job - where you worked hard. Now it is no where like it was, you don't have to worry about the supervisor firing you for taking a pee and it has gone so far as to pay them not to work, they call it a JOBS BANK where they sit around waiting for an opening in a plant. We still have some layoff benefits. I can tell you that a few not only get unemployment but a lot of things from the state that they don't need.

[theoldprof]

Good post Cherri. When #3 son in law was an engineer at GM his job was to go to the suppliers and help the suppliers with production and quality problems. Most of the times he went down on the production floor and asked the guys that made the stuff. They usually knew the answer, but said their management wouldn't listen to them. Management did the thinking, and they were supposed to do the working.

[cheri1122]

Most products (including the Freightliner I'm driving) could benefit immensely from that perspective, which is sadly too rare in American business. The whole "Us against them" philosophy is wrongheaded - every person involved should feel part of a team effort, with a common goal, and everyone's input should be solicited, and acted upon, if merited. Mostly, though, suggestions from the workforce are not encouraged, and dismissed without consideration if offered - what a sad comment on leadership that is.

[greg334]

But in this country and with this specific union, management is evil. The union takes the position that unless they can control things, they spin it as the management ignores the workers which is not true at all.

Once the management used to listen to the workers and it was the worker's representative who told managment not to ask them for ideas.

Ford instituted a reward system where if the workers came up with a cost savings idea or an improvement to the product, they would get rewarded - sometimes it was the percentage of the savings and other times it was a piece of the product profit. A few made really good money off their Ideas but that was really the real problem, a few made money off of it, not everyone. So some of the many complained about it to the UAW, who demanded that Ford stop the program and figure out a way where everyone shares the reward, Ford said **** you and pulled the program completely.

The funny thing is we look at the history of the auto companies and how bad it was but for some reason Ford used this same exact program back in the late 30's with success and in 1952 model year put it back in place with a great amount of success but this last time, the UAW screwed it up.

This was being started at GM, with Hydramatic in Warren and the UAW killed it at conception.

[MSinger]

Originally Posted by arkjarhead

Do you think you will be alive 75 years from now? I doubt I will. No man on either side of my family has ever made it to 75. So what happens in case of an emergency and our military needs that road and the foreign entity that is "leasing" it doesn't want to let them use it? Do our troops then have to fight to use a road in the US? Plus doesn't Mitch want to build a toll road from Indy to Evansville then lease it out as soon as it is finished? Seems there are better ways to attract business. When I was last on the Toll Road before it was privatized all the people who worked in the plazas and things didn't seem to happy. Seems like they were worried about losing their jobs.

Come to think of it, I don't think I have ever seen a toll plaza worker that "seemed happy" regardless if they were a guvamet employee or contracted out laborer.

[OntarioVanMan]

Originally Posted by MSinger

Come to think of it, I don't think I have ever seen a toll plaza worker that "seemed happy" regardless if they were a guvamet employee or contracted out laborer.

I've met some nice toll takers...they weren't too happy thou to being phased out by automatic tolling however....and the union that represents the toll takers are losing their bargaining power.

[Suds43]

You hit the nail on the head Hawk, Tennessee is a 'right to work' state.........which basically means no unions! I"m not sure, but probably Alabama and Ms. are too.

[piper1]

Originally Posted by MSinger

Actually no infrastructure has been sold. The Indiana Toll Road is on a 75 year lease for $3.8 billion. The State of Indiana is currently collecting $543,243 PER DAY on the interest alone. This money is being funneled back into the highways all across the state. The toll road has been improved and for the first time tolls can be collected electronically through the EZ Pass system. The company that leases the toll road is also giving the state $5 million to build a new state police post along the road as well as an additional $6 million for additional troopers to patrol the highway.
This arrangement is not unique just to Indiana. The City of Chicago formed the first lease of an existing tollway with a private company who also has foreign ties. The Chicago Skyway was leased out for $1.83 dollars for a 99 year lease in January 2005. Florida, New Jersey and Pennsylvania are also interested in forming such leases on their toll roads.

Is this why it's such a bargain at $6.75 for 150 miles?

We tried the whole tollroad lease deal here in Ontario with highway 407, billions of dollars were paid to the government. What a deal it was! But then the company it was leased to was sold to someone else and they saw a cash cow.

Fast forward to today,

To drive my pickup about 65 miles on the 407 costs $24.10. And once the deal was signed the government seemed to suddenly loose interest in building or expanding any roads that would possibly be an alternative to 407. BTW, the same trip in a D unit would cost 91.01 for someone from out of state (no 407 transponder, your EZ pass don't work on the 407) if you had the transponder it would be 41 bucks. There's no toll booths either so you get billed, if you don't pay the bill you get you will not be able to renew your license plates.

Now the government has sued the highway several times to try to get them to quit gouging people, the government keeps loosing as the courts say the toll increases are "prudent" with the increasing costs of maintaining the highway, wich was built by the taxpayers as a 50 year concrete road (it is a very nice highway).

Anyone who things selling or leasing highways is a good idea should read up on the 407. Like I said, what a deal!

[arkjarhead]

Originally Posted by Suds43

You hit the nail on the head Hawk, Tennessee is a 'right to work' state.........which basically means no unions! I"m not sure, but probably Alabama and Ms. are too.

Sorry Suds but you wrong about no unions in Tennessee. My step-dad is a member of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers in Memphis,TN. It's a little different than the UAW though. They sign an agreement and in this agreement is a "no strike clause" that says if they struck they'll loose their jobs. The union has mediated on their behalf with the company before and I can remember as a kid my step-dad going to meetings to discuss things. A couple a few knuckle heads wanted to vote on striking even though it would mean losing their jobs. Luckily the vote never went through.

[greg334]

Ark, there are a lot of unions in Tennessee, the IBEW is one as you mention and so is the IBOE is another. Not to mention some of the soft trade unions.

But the BIG difference is the IBEW and the IBOE are both there to protect the members who often move around from job to job and company to company.

[cheri1122]

Piper: not sure if it's the same in Canada, (but it probably is, as the buyers of toll roads are the same conglomerates), but here in the US, the gov't is required to sign a noncompete clause, agreeing to refrain from building (or even improving) any roads to compete with the tollway.

[Turtle]

A "right to work" state doesn't mean no unions, it means that en employee cannot be forced to join a union as a condition of employment, nor can they be fired should they ever decide to quit paying union dues. It means they are free to join, or not to join, as they see fit, but they have a right to work even if they don't join a union. It's a provision of the Taft-Hartley Act.

In states that are not "right to work" states, often called "forced union" states, the unions have a lot of control over management, something that new businesses, especially foreign businesses, want nothing to do with. That's why these new businesses will rarely even consider a non-right to work state without some contractual stipulation that the unions cannot force anyone to join.

There was an interesting editorial a couple of months ago in the Wall Street Journal that compared Ohio to Texas.

The Wall Street Journal: Texas v. Ohio - The Buckeye Institute

"Ohio's most crippling handicap may be that its politicians -- and thus its employers -- are still in the grip of such industrial unions as the United Auto Workers. Ohio is a "closed shop" state, which means workers can be forced to join a union whether they wish to or not. Many companies -- especially foreign-owned -- say they will not even consider such locations for new sites. States with "right to work" laws that make union organizing more difficult, had twice the job growth of Ohio and other forced union states from 1995-2005, according to the National Institute for Labor Relations."

"Ohio Governor Ted Strickland, a Democrat who supports Mrs. Clinton, blames his state's problems on President Bush. But Ohio's economy has been struggling for years, and most of its wounds are self-inflicted. Ohio now ranks 47th out of 50 in economic competitiveness, according to the American Legislative Exchange Council. Ohio politicians deplore plant closings even as they impose the third highest corporate income tax in the country (10.5%) and the sixth highest personal income tax (8.87%)."

I love this line:
"Ohio lays out the red carpet for companies -- when they leave the state."


"On the other hand, Texas is a right to work state and has been adding jobs by the tens of thousands. Nearly 1,000 new plants have been built in Texas since 2005, from the likes of Microsoft, Samsung and Fujitsu. Foreign-owned companies supplied the state with 345,000 jobs. No wonder Texans don't fear global competition the way some Presidential candidates do."

Below is a map of where the future lies, much to Tallcal's chagrin. The South will rise again, baby!

[piper1]

Originally Posted by cheri1122

Piper: not sure if it's the same in Canada, (but it probably is, as the buyers of toll roads are the same conglomerates), but here in the US, the gov't is required to sign a noncompete clause, agreeing to refrain from building (or even improving) any roads to compete with the tollway.

Likely the same here then. How exactly is this in the best interests of the taxpayer?? Oh silly me...what does that matter.

[arkjarhead]

Originally Posted by greg334

But the BIG difference is the IBEW and the IBOE are both there to protect the members who often move around from job to job and company to company.

I don't know about that. I'll trust you. My step dad worked for the same company for 10 years. He quit only because he was starting his on business.

[Tennesseahawk]

Turtle... have you noticed what I did about your map? It's almost identical to the RED states in a presidential election. HAHAHA!!!

Maybe goes to show we conservatives aren't that dumb after all.